Curse

ComMan · Jul 03, 2005, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flame Skyborn

I'd switch out Quick Shot and put in Melandru's Arrows, and since that would override Kindle Arrows, I'd put in Whirling Defense, Troll Unguent, or Serpent's Quickness. Dual Shot with the Conjure damage, Melandru Damage, and Bleeding would work quite well. Serpent's Quickness would make Dual Shot better for spamming, and Whirling and Troll are purely for defensive purposes.

And if it wasn't for that nasty little res sig, you could have so much more fun with that build. =) However, everyone does expect you to have one, and they are quite useful I guess.

Also, I might be tempted to switch Debilitating Shot with Penetrating Shot.

Edit: If you are going to take Conjure Fire out, I'd probably put in Tiger's Fury in it's place, and throw some points into Beast Mastery, and spend the rest on Marksmanship that you get from taking out Fire Magic, which you wouldn't be using anymore.

Do you understand how his build works?

He puts Kindle on his arrows, making them do about +20 damage with each shot (this is fire damage). His Marksmanship is fairly low, meaning that he doesn't do much bow damage directly.

He can use Quick Shot or Dual Shot for every shot and get an absurd ROF. The idea is to put as many of those arrows on target as possible. Melandru's Arrows does a bit more damage, but it's elite, so he would lose Quick Shot.

Addationally, Melandru's Arrows (which is still my favorite elite), only works on enchanted targets.

PS. why no Quickening Zephyr? You could drop Dual Shot and just Quick Shot every 1/2 second if you used it.

Kriegar · Jul 03, 2005, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

He has no healing because of The Idiots' misguided notion that no one should have self healing of any sort and rely on their monks instead. Very flawed philosophy I'd say. Also their notion of pumping an attribute way up into the teens is also one of their philosophies of specialization. Again not very smart unless you have a specific team you're trying to mesh into.

hahahahhaa
Yes, it's a terrible idea to have monks heal! Everyone use self heals ftw!

PieXags · Jul 03, 2005, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

How about you stop listening to the people showing off their blatant lack of understanding about the game, and do a nice 14/12/11 Quick Shot build without scrubby self-healing?

Because then when the opposing team finds out what he's doing he'll be royally screwed.

Beoulve · Jul 03, 2005, 02:17 AM // 02:17

I don't want to use QZ Because it messes up Ele's =[

Hurts the monks, I would rather do a little less damage to help keep my team alive.

Beoulve · Jul 03, 2005, 02:25 AM // 02:25

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2534/gw0031ry.jpg

TF instead of Conjure flame is what I am going to try next.

14 Expertise 10 marks and something like 8+1 BM

ComMan · Jul 03, 2005, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

Because then when the opposing team finds out what he's doing he'll be royally screwed.

You'd be surprised how few people pay attention to Rangers.

I've gone through a good many Tombs matches, which often play out just the way the IQ guys always say they will. Monks drop first, then other casters, then Rangers and Warriors. If the enemy comes after me first, that usually means they're not all on the called target, in which case my team's not in great danger of losing.

I've been on a lot of teams that run QZ, and monks usually survive. Elementalists aren't so fortunate more often than not.

PieXags · Jul 03, 2005, 02:52 AM // 02:52

You're right, rangers aren't often the primary target, they're usually down there near the bottom of the "getting attacked" chain.

However, during the battle, you will take some damage. Either from another ranger or a few casters who notice you, and you will need to keep yourself out of trouble. Which is why a "shoddy" healing spell, like troll unguent, is sufficient for most all situations.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Jul 03, 2005, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kriegar

hahahahhaa
Yes, it's a terrible idea to have monks heal! Everyone use self heals ftw!

Meh, sarcasm. *shrug*

I don't see how one self heal can hurt a build. It's not like eight attack skills will make you an "uber" damage machine as opposed to 6 or 7. If all you did in GW was do damage then there's not much strategy is there?

EDIT: And PieXag is correct. Just because you're a ranger and not a priority target doesnt mean you won't take damage at all until everyone else is dead. There's always collaterol damage as well as someone throwing a DOT on you and then leaving you alone to die slowly while they go back to their main target.

ComMan · Jul 03, 2005, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

I don't see how one self heal can hurt a build. It's not like eight attack skills will make you an "uber" damage machine as opposed to 6 or 7. If all you did in GW was do damage then there's not much strategy is there?

It won't, but if you're like me then you have more skills that you want than you have skill slots. Troll Ungent just won't help me as much as other skills in most situations.

Anarkii · Jul 03, 2005, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

You're right, rangers aren't often the primary target, they're usually down there near the bottom of the "getting attacked" chain.

However, during the battle, you will take some damage. Either from another ranger or a few casters who notice you, and you will need to keep yourself out of trouble. Which is why a "shoddy" healing spell, like troll unguent, is sufficient for most all situations.

I agree with you. A ranger without troll unguent(or any other healing skill) is downright irresponsible. Monks have enough trouble as it is keeping alive themselves and all their casters.

This is a good build, but due to lack of self-healing, is rendered ineffective against DoT skills/spells.

If I were to face this build in an arena(I am an R/Me), Poison Arrow+Conjure Phantasm+Spirit Shackles will finish it.

Neo-LD · Jul 03, 2005, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarkii

I agree with you. A ranger without troll unguent(or any other healing skill) is downright irresponsible. Monks have enough trouble as it is keeping alive themselves and all their casters.

This is a good build, but due to lack of self-healing, is rendered ineffective against DoT skills/spells.

If I were to face this build in an arena(I am an R/Me), Poison Arrow+Conjure Phantasm+Spirit Shackles will finish it.

Congratulations on bringing the perfect skills needed to kill this specific build. Id like to see those skills kill anything else lol.

Self heals are good, but only if they fit with the build. A ranger with no wilderness in the first place should go get some just for Unguent. I use Whirling D instead, comes from Expertise.

To the OP, Tigers Fury is effective for me at 4 BMastery, lasts 7 seconds. You could then go with 14/12/10/4 Expert/Marks/Wild/Beast (after runes). Uber attack speed with Kindle and Punishing and Penetrating Shots hurts ALOT.

ComMan · Jul 03, 2005, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Rangers are usually built on spamming attack skills, so Spirit Shackles by itself will dominate most Rangers. Luckily, very few people use Energy Denial on Rangers, instead focusing on caster shutdown.

That's not a build-specific flaw, it's just what happens because of the way Rangers are implemented. They're energy intensive, have low mana, and use expertise to counter their low mana. If you drain that low mana, then they're done.

Of course, your Mesmer skills aren't affected by Expertise, and you're an R primary. That means that Energy Denial is more effective against you than pretty much any other class combination, since you need energy but don't have much to spare. His Debilitating Shot by itself reduces you to about 20 mana (if you've spent none), Casting those 2 hexes leaves with with 1 mana. You're shut down too.

Side note: I still think Debilitating Shot is pretty sub-par against devoted casters, since they have so much more mana to spare. This is a rare example where it provides a quick and effective shutdown with only 1 ranger using it.

Tigris Of Gaul · Jul 03, 2005, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarkii

I agree with you. A ranger without troll unguent(or any other healing skill) is downright irresponsible. Monks have enough trouble as it is keeping alive themselves and all their casters.

This is a good build, but due to lack of self-healing, is rendered ineffective against DoT skills/spells.

If I were to face this build in an arena(I am an R/Me), Poison Arrow+Conjure Phantasm+Spirit Shackles will finish it.

Why not let the monk heal?

Beoulve · Jul 03, 2005, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Sometimes its hard, and I would rather keep and Ele alive rather than me, the ranger.

This is what I'm trying to do atm: http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/5189/gw0019ep.jpg

Seems to be working quite well, Some times it hurts the mana though =[

Ensign · Jul 03, 2005, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Why Quick Shot? What so great about it?

It's fast, letting you pack more arrows and thus more damage into a small timeframe. That is, shall we say, a good thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Wouldnt punishing shot hurt more?

Punishing Shot is a glorified Savage Shot. Or a glorified Power Shot. Either way, a glorified version of a mediocre skill is not good, and certainly not worth an elite slot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Personally I was never was a fan of Favorable Winds. Its damage bonus isnt that great, only ~3 per shot. You could fire ~3 arrows within the 5 second casting time instead. You could cast it before the battle starts, but even then Id rather have whirling defense (your build needs some self defense anyways)

Well you just want to use Favorable Winds before a battle starts, where the time lost really doesn't matter since you wouldn't have engaged anyway. I don't think the skill does enough in general, though, and I certainly wouldn't be running rituals blindly - that is, they have no place in individual builds, not team builds.

I don't think that Rangers need any real self defense in PvP, unless you're playing arena. Their armor and a bit of smart gameplay is more than enough given their targeting priority. I can see running WD on an offensive trapper or the like, but otherwise leave that skill for your arena/PvE builds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beoulve

I was thinking of just dropping Conjure flame as I am buying a 5/1 vampiric soon, and then I can raise a few beast mastery and a little more marks

My experience with Conjure Flame is that it divides your attribute points way too much to really be effective - you want to have four high attributes in that build, plus some BM for Tiger's Fury, and you aren't going to be able to swing that without a lot of corner cutting and compromises. I think you're much better off dropping the Conjure and pumping your Survival and Marksmanship through the roof - the damage is comparable and everything outside of the combo works better as well.

Dropping the Zealous string should be done with caution - the energy you get from that upgrade will far outstrip the +5 damage you'll stack on top of your attacks in the long run. What's another +5 on a hit that's already doing 70 damage? It's useful for very short term spikes, but Zealous wins out long term every time. I'd naturally carry both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beoulve

I don't know what to lower for Tiger fury, Belive me ive been working that out for over 3 hours now.

In my experience you want Beastmastery at 7 for casual use of Tiger's Fury - that'll give you 8 seconds out of every 10, meaning just one normal speed attack every ten seconds. You're going to end up with those normal shots fairly regularly with a 9 second Fury, making the two negligible - you're only going to see a real jump in effectiveness if you pump all the way to 12 for the 10 second Fury.

So realistically, given all the demands of this build, you're going to want 7 BM, or 6+1. The rest of your points can go into maxing out Survival + Marksmanship to the best of your ability. You can skimp a bit more if you just want very quick spikes, but if you want any degree of sustainability on Tiger's Fury 7 is probably ideal.

Peace,
-CxE

Tigris Of Gaul · Jul 03, 2005, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beoulve

Sometimes its hard, and I would rather keep and Ele alive rather than me, the ranger.

This is what I'm trying to do atm: http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/5189/gw0019ep.jpg

Seems to be working quite well, Some times it hurts the mana though =[

If you're taking damage as a ranger:
a) the attacker has no clue what he's doing
b) you're standing in a AoE
c) maybe you're carrying an important part of the build

B - just move out. A and C - yes, you're taking damage, but that means someone else isn't. So whatever damage an Elementalist would've taken is now being directed to you, so the healing stays the same, maybe even less so due to your armor.

Beoulve · Jul 03, 2005, 04:43 AM // 04:43

K, TF sucks. end.

ComMan · Jul 03, 2005, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beoulve

K, TF sucks. end.

Ummm..no? It's no as fast as Quick Shot, but it's also not as energy-intensive and it's not elite. Also, you only need about 4 Beast Mastery to use it, taking those points out of BM won't do much except give you 1 more Wilderness Survival.

Tiger's Fury with Quick Shot is probably a waste though. You'll get enough ROF out of Quick Shot that you'll never even notice Tiger's Fury. However, if you're like me and you want to carry a different elite (like Melandru's Arrows), then Tiger's Fury is almost necessary.

Beoulve · Jul 03, 2005, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Yea, I am using Serpents instead of Tigers now =/

ComMan · Jul 03, 2005, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beoulve

Yea, I am using Serpents instead of Tigers now =/

Again, you're using Quick Shot. With Serpent's Quickness you increase your already absurd rate of fire. However, a lot of people don't carry Quick Shot (or even have it capped) so they need Tiger's Fury for the rate of fire boost.